MY LIFE WITHOUT GOD by William J. Murray, son of America's most famous atheist, Madalyn Murray O'Hair

Air Date: April 20, 2012

Host: Vic Eliason

Guest: William J. Murray

In 1963, America's most famous atheist, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, won the landmark lawsuit filed on behalf of her son William that effectively banned prayer in public schools. Years later, Bill Murray became a Christian, and he now is Chairman of the Religious Freedom Coalition.

Bill tells of his life as a child, having just barely met his father before he left the family, being raised by his mother who was dysfunctional, unable to hold a job. Madalyn was recruited by a Communist while standing in an unemployment line, and she embraced the Marxist worldview, and hatred of God.

Later she noticed that the Pledge of Allegiance (which includes the phrase, "Under God") was posted and recited in schools. As she discovered other practices in public schools, including prayer in a few situations, she began protesting and carried out her threat to remove Bill from school.

After she sent out a mailing detailing her views, others who hated God began sending her money enabling her to improve her lifestyle and develop her organization, American Atheists. The organization worked to remove God from public life, and filed a number of lawsuits, one of which led to the landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling ending official Bible-reading in American public schools in 1963.

Bill was back in school after three weeks and continued his education. He tells how he came to Christ and began his ministry which includes daily visits to Capitol Hill to visit Senators and Representatives.

Bill Murray's life story is told in the book, "My Life Without God" which has just been reprinted.

More Information:

www.religiousfreedomcoalition.org

Order the book "My Life Without God" at 25% off the regular price during April, 2012:
Order online at
www.vcy.com

or call
1-888-722-4829
Transcript


00:05
bcy America presents crosstalk a
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00:20
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america.org here is today's crosstalk
00:27
well Thank You mr. Morris and glad to
00:29
have you weather son crosstalk today I
00:32
was looking at an item on fox news we've
00:34
been following it of course among the
00:36
many things that are on the news today
00:38
but this one couldn't escape me Marines
00:41
fight to protect the crosses at Camp
00:43
Pendleton as atheist group seeks removal
00:46
and of course we have people around the
00:49
country that are free thinkers and
00:51
atheists and say this foolishness about
00:54
God is something we we just don't have
00:57
the ability to tolerate it and so
00:59
militantly they go after this and here
01:02
in wisconsin of course we have the
01:04
Freedom From Religion Foundation which
01:06
certainly is expressed even by the name
01:09
of their organization their intent it
01:13
was many years ago back in the 80s I had
01:16
the privilege of doing a television show
01:18
with the gentlemen who had come from
01:21
being an atheist and had been
01:24
transformed by the power of God this man
01:27
in his childhood had been used to take
01:32
prayer and Bible reading out of the
01:34
schools his name was Bill Murray and his
01:37
mom was Madalyn Murray O'Hair and Bill's
01:40
our guest today and Bill what our
01:42
privilege is to have you back here on
01:43
vcy
01:44
great to be back on with you big bill
01:48
this thing of course Camp Pendleton and
01:51
people that are still trying to know I
01:53
God you know I remember the old god is
01:56
dead signs and I was frustrated because
01:58
they said God is dead I just talked to
02:01
him that morning so I know he was alive
02:03
but this issue back in 1963 I believe it
02:08
was that the Madalyn Murray O'Hair when
02:10
the landmark lawsuit filed on behalf of
02:13
you effectively banning prayer in the
02:16
public schools
02:18
yes that that's right and how that how
02:22
that came about is is not a short story
02:26
think because we can't start there and
02:31
and everybody is tempted to that we
02:33
can't the reality is is that the the
02:37
march toward that began before 1960 and
02:42
in extremely dysfunctional violent home
02:46
I I never I met my father one time I
02:51
think when I was about six or eight
02:53
years old my little brother never met
02:55
his father there was violence in our
02:58
home alcohol in our home dishes flying
03:00
through the air my mother could not hold
03:03
down a job she was just incapable of it
03:05
because of her volatile personality
03:08
we lived with with her mother and father
03:13
we had the proverbial nutty uncle that
03:16
lived there this was my mother was a
03:19
single mother when when things like that
03:21
didn't happen and I would grew up in a
03:24
dysfunctional family when there weren't
03:26
very many dysfunctional families I mean
03:28
dysfunctional families are in fashion
03:30
right now but they weren't in the 1950s
03:33
and in 1960s and I bring this up because
03:37
everybody has this view that Bible
03:41
reading and prayer was kicked out of the
03:43
schools by some intellectual who was
03:47
championing separation of church and
03:49
state this is not the case the reality
03:53
is is that because my mother couldn't
03:55
hold down a job but she was recruited
03:58
out of the unemployment lines by the
03:59
communists and by the way this is
04:01
another strange thing particularly among
04:05
evangelical Christians that they believe
04:06
that communists are intellectuals the
04:08
reality is is that the overwhelming
04:11
majority of communists are recruited out
04:13
of unemployment lines not out of Ivy
04:14
League universities and uh my mother
04:19
became a Marxist uh we had Marshall in
04:22
the study classes in our home I met got
04:24
home any of the other communist leaders
04:27
my mother was uh just you know was all
04:31
by Fidel Castro and she wanted to move
04:34
to the Soviet Union because she saw it
04:37
as a worker's paradise a utopia and in
04:41
1960 our family myself and my mother and
04:46
myself and my little half brother eight
04:48
years my younger attempted my mother
04:50
dragged us put us on a ship took us to
04:53
Europe and she actually tried to defect
04:55
to the Soviet Union because she believed
04:57
all the propaganda and lies about the
05:00
Soviet Union that she was going to be a
05:02
guaranteed a job for life that they were
05:04
going to give her a place to live for a
05:06
small amount of money that that there
05:09
was no profit and made from anybody from
05:12
food so that the the food was cheaper
05:14
and it was plentiful and everybody got
05:16
30-day vacations and and free medical
05:22
care and free education she believed all
05:24
this garbage well they didn't wonder
05:27
they didn't wonder any more than they
05:28
wanted Lee Harvey Oswald who was already
05:30
there and they send her back to the
05:33
United States it was that attempted
05:36
defection to the Soviet Union
05:39
that idea in her mind that that she
05:42
could somehow go to this utopian society
05:46
that led directly to prayer in Bible
05:50
reading being moved from the school this
05:52
was not some intellectual endeavor or
05:54
great lifting of the Constitution or
05:56
Jeffersonian ideas a separation of
05:58
church and state the reality is is that
06:02
my mother had to take me up to the
06:04
school in September after I had missed
06:06
three weeks in this attempted defection
06:08
thing and in him walking down the
06:13
hallway for the first time being in a
06:15
school with Mason she dropped me off for
06:16
kindergarten she saw the Pledge of
06:18
Allegiance and the prayer and the Bible
06:20
reading going on inside of the classroom
06:22
and she was livid not because of
06:25
separation of church and state but
06:27
because her sons were going to be taught
06:31
to respect God and respect the
06:33
government of the United States and it's
06:35
constitutional and Republican
06:37
foundations when she hated the country
06:40
hated God and didn't want to be here
06:43
the the the purpose of
06:45
in prayer and probably it was vindictive
06:47
in nature because she couldn't detect to
06:49
the Soviet Union could go living this
06:51
utopian paradise that she envisioned
06:53
that the Soviet Union was and so the
06:58
people's view of this of what happened
07:01
and in this plan frequently asked to
07:03
begin in 1963 with a Supreme Court
07:07
decision what really happened and why it
07:11
happened in 63 comes earlier than that
07:15
and one has to understand that to really
07:18
understand why we don't have prayer and
07:20
Bible reading in the schools today well
07:22
bill of course that that seed fell on
07:26
fertile soil because there were others
07:29
who were equally hateful toward God and
07:33
absolutely well there was there was a
07:36
another lawsuit that was headed toward
07:39
the Supreme Court out of New York and in
07:41
that case there was a situation in which
07:45
there was actually a prayer that had
07:48
been written by the legislature that
07:49
everybody was required to say and it's
07:52
unfortunate that they did that if they
07:55
would have had a voluntary prayer like
07:56
we did in Baltimore at the time the
07:59
Supreme Court might not have sided with
08:01
them but because it was mandatory and
08:03
because it was state offered the Supreme
08:06
Court overwhelmingly found it
08:07
unconstitutional in 1962 in what that
08:11
did was set a foundation for that 1963
08:16
case so the when it got there the
08:18
precedent was already there and all
08:21
prayer and all you know a lead prayer
08:26
and all Bible reading of course somebody
08:28
can still pray individually in the
08:30
school but you you can't have sanctioned
08:32
prayer saying to obey a Bible reading in
08:34
the school even if it's voluntary
08:35
because of that that 1953 came well Bill
08:40
as we as we go back into the history
08:42
that was your life okay they the Pern
08:48
Bible reading was taken out of the
08:50
public schools life still wasn't easy
08:53
for you was it
08:54
well I know it wasn't an in
08:57
you know we need to look at the change
09:01
though there's something else that
09:03
happened there that that just didn't
09:05
didn't involve me when in back going
09:09
back to 1960 when my mother had this
09:14
hatred of we're going to remove this she
09:17
didn't file a lawsuit immediately what
09:19
she did is she wrote a letter to the
09:21
editor the Baltimore Sun newspaper and
09:24
they took that letter and instead of
09:26
publishing it is Alerus you see she
09:28
basically said I'm so mad about I don't
09:30
want the pledge allegiance and I don't
09:31
want the prayer and I don't want the
09:32
Bible reading in the schools and I've
09:34
taken my son out of the school and I'm
09:36
going to hold him out in protest and
09:38
until they stop as if that mattered to
09:40
anybody and the Baltimore Sun newspaper
09:43
which is extremely liberal they didn't
09:45
print that as a letter to the editor
09:47
they came out they interviewed my mother
09:49
they took our pictures and they put the
09:50
story in the front page of the newspaper
09:52
it went out nationally and what began to
09:56
happen is everybody in the country that
09:59
hated God that hated Jesus Christ that
10:01
hated the nation started to spend her
10:02
money here's a woman that couldn't
10:05
afford a Nash Rambler a used Nash
10:07
Rambler and suddenly she had enough
10:09
money to buy a large American car cash
10:12
you know to buy an office building could
10:15
buy clothes for the first time this
10:16
somebody you know are the sheriff would
10:18
be coming to our house every six months
10:20
trying to repossess something and now
10:23
you know my mother had all the money
10:26
that she needed because of of the number
10:30
of people in our nation that hated the
10:32
nation and favored the dictatorship that
10:35
in in the Soviet Union that the
10:37
mass-murdering dictatorship there were
10:39
that many people she also this country
10:41
she used to also go out and do
10:43
the editorials or preach sermons against
10:47
God well yeah of course she did in but
10:50
she raised a lot of money direct mail
10:52
most of the money that that she made
10:54
which eventually we talk about that
10:57
later led to her demise but most of the
11:01
money that she made was in in sending
11:05
out monthly newsletters and and to be
11:08
very honest you know she would instigate
11:12
violent situations hoping to get to be
11:17
able to report on me being in fights
11:19
with other teenagers so that she could
11:21
get more money out of people and it uh
11:27
once she realized she wasn't she wasn't
11:31
all that smart I mean she went to law
11:34
school but then failed the bar exam so
11:36
she was smart but not brilliant I failed
11:38
the bar exam three times but she was
11:41
still had gone to law school and was
11:43
still smart enough that she understood
11:45
how to make money out of this and in in
11:50
and she did and she made a lot of money
11:53
out of it well no we're coming up on a
11:56
break here but as this all happened how
12:01
did I mean you were taken out of school
12:03
what happened to you what what did you I
12:05
mean I that it was the only a matter of
12:09
you know three three weeks I mister
12:10
monsterschool I had to make it back up
12:13
so I spent that year in Woodburn Junior
12:19
High School which is since had its name
12:22
changed to some politically correct
12:24
Native American name and kinkle P and I
12:27
think and then I went to Baltimore
12:31
Polytechnic Institute which was an
12:33
engineering prep school so I was in the
12:37
school and I mean there it was the part
12:42
in the Junior High School in the in the
12:44
the local junior high school that was
12:45
pretty bad because we lived in an
12:48
immigrant neighborhood and the majority
12:50
of people that lived in that
12:52
neighborhood had escaped from countries
12:55
that we're now inside the Soviet bloc
13:00
many of them had crawled out under
13:02
barbed wire to get away from from Poland
13:05
and Hungary and East Germany and Russia
13:07
and now they had a family in their midst
13:09
that wanted to make American like the
13:11
country that they had escaped from so
13:14
the neighborhood was fairly rough for me
13:16
and and so was that school right after
13:19
the break we're gonna come back and
13:20
follow bills life as and also that of
13:23
his mother Madalyn Murray O'Hair as the
13:27
the per profile nationally became so
13:31
evident everyone was aware of Madalyn
13:33
Murray O'Hair a woman without God I
13:36
won't who hated God we'll be back in
13:38
just a minute with Bill Murray
13:58
back to Genesis with scientist dr. John
14:00
Morris dr. Morris what did the
14:03
Neanderthal people look like Chris the
14:05
Neanderthal people were people just like
14:07
us they were probably an ethnic language
14:09
group that migrated away from Babel into
14:11
the harsh regions of Europe
14:12
appearance-wise they would have probably
14:14
looked much like us typically they would
14:17
have had a more protruding chin a more
14:19
sloping forehead and a more pronounced
14:20
brow Ridge on average but each of these
14:22
features have had and some people alive
14:23
today
14:24
I suspect that have you put in the NFL
14:26
and modern clothes and he walked down
14:27
the street you wouldn't even notice him
14:29
he might be ugly but it certainly be
14:31
human I'm sure that Neanderthals were
14:33
people to send us of Noah just like you
14:35
and me and they needed a savior at least
14:37
that's how I see it from a back to
14:39
Genesis perspective thanks dr. Morris
14:41
for more information on the foundational
14:43
principles set forth in Genesis simply
14:46
visit us on the web at triple w dot ICR
14:48
org that's triple w IC r dot o-r-g this
14:53
is Chris O'Brien god bless
15:08
our guest is William J Murray Bill
15:11
Murray the son of Madalyn Murray O'Hair
15:13
a man who began his life without God but
15:17
through the miracle of transformation by
15:20
the power of God he became a believer
15:21
and we're talking about some of those
15:24
previous years the years that were
15:27
formative the years that record much of
15:30
the bitterness and hatred that Madeleine
15:32
Maria had for God and for her country
15:35
bill you went through grade school been
15:39
to college what happened well you know I
15:43
went going just just a little bit back
15:46
let's talk about this the the high
15:49
school if I could because it sure has
15:51
integral and you know I do again you
15:53
know the guy I do have a there's a
15:55
tremendous amount of detail in in my
15:59
book my life without God that woman
16:01
daily has has re-released that we just
16:03
absolutely don't it's a 300 page book we
16:06
just don't have time to get into it but
16:08
but going back to to the high school you
16:11
know I I get asked a lot well did you
16:13
know what was going on and and I find
16:15
the question curious you didn't ask it
16:18
because you're about that same age I am
16:23
a little older but the the younger of
16:26
the people that interviewed me when I
16:28
get on a show with somebody that's 25 or
16:30
30 and they're the host they ask me what
16:32
did you know what was going on and it
16:35
took me a while to figure that out
16:36
here's the reality 50 years ago people
16:40
its were teenagers were involved with
16:43
their families if their kids were were
16:45
if it was a Republican family they were
16:47
Republicans and they knew what what what
16:49
what it was what politics were about if
16:51
they're Democrats or Democrats
16:52
understood was about if they were
16:54
Catholics they were actively involved in
16:55
the church if they were Baptist they're
16:57
actively involved in the church they
16:58
were Baptist today you know teenagers
17:02
don't even know what your mother and
17:03
father do got earbuds on they're looking
17:06
at computer screens you know they're
17:09
there they're involved in porn or
17:11
watching something on the other side of
17:12
the country and living in a virgin
17:14
the world they're living in a virtual
17:16
world and we have a situation now we're
17:18
particularly with young men but they
17:21
don't they don't get out of their
17:22
adolescence until they're 30 and and so
17:25
you have a tremendous number of 17 18 19
17:30
year old adult who are totally ignorant
17:33
of anything that's going on around them
17:36
except what's going on with their
17:37
friends and Facebook and if you ask them
17:40
what their father does for a livin they
17:41
don't even know and if they know where
17:43
he works they don't know what he does if
17:45
they have a father in the home and that
17:47
wasn't true
17:49
50 years ago and you know I was a
17:52
dedicated Marxist I believed all this
17:55
stuff I was taught all this stuff and in
17:57
high school I was the I was the
17:59
president of the United Nations Club
18:01
which is where all the Marxist went in
18:03
the public school clubs they were part
18:05
of the United Nations Club so you know
18:11
it is it is a people have to
18:14
particularly the younger people
18:15
listening to this show have to
18:18
understand this was a different era when
18:20
when teenagers were actually a part of
18:24
their family well folks I would urge you
18:28
to get a copy of this book which we are
18:30
making available through vcy bookstore
18:32
or vcy dot-com it's called my life
18:36
without God
18:37
it is a power-packed book it gives the
18:40
testimony of where bill came from where
18:43
Madalyn Murray O'Hair came from and what
18:45
happened in their lives and as bill as
18:47
well said today the details are too
18:50
numerous to even begin to unfold the
18:52
pages that are there we will be touching
18:55
the high spots but I would urge you to
18:57
get a copy newly released through WMD
19:01
publications it's called my life without
19:04
God William J Murray and this is the WND
19:09
books classics the 30th anniversary
19:11
edition and I would urge you to get a
19:13
copy and share it read it and hopefully
19:17
it would help you to understand the
19:19
importance of a foundation in a godly
19:21
family something with the basis God's
19:24
Word and not hatred toward God or a
19:27
god that's carnal or god that's
19:29
materialistic so if you would like to
19:32
call eight hundred seven to nine I mean
19:37
let me let me correct that if you'd like
19:38
to call directly to vcy bookstore they
19:41
have a number where you can order this
19:43
book it's eight eight eight seven to two
19:46
forty eight twenty nine that's eight
19:48
eight eight seven two two forty eight
19:50
twenty nine or you can go to vcy dot-com
19:54
and get a copy of this it's a terrific
19:57
book it is something that literally has
20:00
a ministry to your heart as you realize
20:02
the battle that Satan is waging for the
20:05
lives of people bill as we look at what
20:09
has happened and as we see over these
20:13
years how how was it that all of a
20:15
sudden you begin to even consider that
20:18
Christianity would be something for you
20:20
I didn't you know what would really
20:25
happen to me there was a there was an
20:27
economic change when I left my home as a
20:30
teenager I discovered that if you held
20:37
down a job or work in a single industry
20:40
and did worked hard and did good work
20:43
that you got promotions and increases in
20:45
pay mmm and I'd never learned that
20:47
inside of my home and I did very well I
20:50
wound up in the airline industry I was
20:52
an agent and an assistant manager that a
20:54
manager Rob ramp services and a director
20:56
of operations and I was I was very
20:59
successful and earned a lot of money
21:01
very early I was for one company the
21:04
youngest a member of management in an
21:07
airline and I made a lot of money and
21:11
and I've resented how much the
21:14
government took in the Marxism that I
21:17
had learned in the collectivism the
21:19
utopianism that just sort of washed away
21:22
and uh you know I
21:26
but the atheism didn't go and I moved to
21:30
the other side of of the Atheist
21:33
spectrum I became an Andean a fan of
21:37
John Stossel before John Stossel was
21:40
ever libertarian
21:41
you know a Ron Paul supporter before Ron
21:45
Paul ever ran for office I mean I became
21:48
a social libertarian a social Darwinist
21:50
and the only thing that I saw that was
21:55
important was me and since I had an
21:59
ability to do very very well for myself
22:02
I believe that you know the most
22:06
important things to me were other than
22:09
myself where that were the best food the
22:10
best restaurants the best booze and the
22:12
best sex and that's it that was all
22:14
important and there's only one minor
22:16
problem with this when you attempt a
22:19
little life like this and it and by the
22:21
way it very much disturbs me and des
22:24
stresses me as I go to things like the
22:26
uh you know CPAC the Conservative
22:30
Political Action Conference in
22:32
Washington DC area and to see it flooded
22:34
with thousands and thousands and
22:36
thousands of young college conservatives
22:39
and the current of a batch of college
22:43
conservatives today are all libertarians
22:47
and they want low taxes and no limits on
22:50
their social lives you know they they
22:53
want the they want the same free sex the
22:55
Liberals have the same dope and the same
22:57
alcohol except they don't want to pay
22:59
any taxes and you know I see this is a
23:04
very dangerous for the entire
23:07
conservative movement the number of
23:09
votes that Ron Paul got the presidential
23:12
primary of people to think that there
23:15
should be no limits on social activity
23:17
that legalizing drugs legalizing
23:20
prostitution would would be just fine
23:23
that alarms me greatly but in some
23:27
elections this man on that kind of a
23:30
platform got 25 and 30 provoked and uh
23:34
you know it because I and I say the
23:37
reason it alarms me is because I know
23:39
what it did in my life that life of
23:42
thinking okay poor people of you know
23:45
they can't work they just need to starve
23:47
to death that living that lifestyle
23:50
nearly destroyed me uh you know when
23:53
when you smoke don't when you want
23:55
drink when you want and eat when you
23:57
want jump on airplanes and go when you
23:59
want you live that kind of lifestyle it
24:01
can burn you out really fast and it
24:03
burned me out and brought me down real
24:04
fast it brought me to my knees until I
24:07
needed help and the available help was
24:10
the gospel of Jesus Christ in the hand
24:12
of the Lord that reached down to pick me
24:14
up out of my monk while this is going on
24:17
mom was still carrying on oh yeah she
24:21
was she was she wound up in Texas wound
24:25
up in Austin Texas I think ran for City
24:28
Councilor mayor one time didn't work out
24:31
for but she made a lot of money on the
24:33
big house up in the hill owned an office
24:35
building and made a lot of money she
24:42
particularly was very very good at
24:45
getting elderly atheists particularly
24:48
out of that those Depression era
24:50
atheists whose children and who had
24:54
become Christians or found Greece on
24:57
Judaism or something like that that that
25:00
she would be able to talk them out of
25:01
out of all their money and because you
25:06
know you don't want to leave it to your
25:07
Christian or Jewish believing kid and
25:10
and she's very very good at that made a
25:13
lot of money
25:14
her organization itself was never very
25:18
much
25:20
you know she claimed hundreds of
25:22
thousands of followers but you know I
25:25
know for a fact that the the biggest
25:26
mailing she ever did from down there was
25:28
no but of newsletters was like 3,500 you
25:32
know and in people told how could she
25:34
make all that money with you know only
25:36
having a few thousand people on her
25:38
mailing list well brother I tell you
25:41
what you show me a 3,000 member church
25:43
and I'll show you one powerful rich
25:45
church hmm you know bill when you were
25:49
well this years ago I'll never forget it
25:51
even as you prayed that if God would he
25:54
would touch her mother's heart and if
25:56
she would come to him she never did that
25:58
ditching not that not that I know of uh
26:02
she had a unfortunately she had the
26:08
there
26:09
and I'm not going I don't know whether
26:11
to call it habit or was that she would
26:14
hire convicted felons convicted
26:16
murderers to work for her I think that
26:20
she enjoyed the sense of power of having
26:24
somebody work for her that had taken
26:26
another human life I don't know that for
26:28
a fact but I have a good feeling that it
26:30
was and one of those individuals that
26:33
she hired that was a convicted murderer
26:35
she put on as an office manager and he
26:39
stole a great deal of money from her
26:41
hundreds of thousands of dollars worth
26:43
of bonds that can be sold on on the open
26:49
market and she fired him tried to get
26:54
him into jail and again and the way our
26:58
justice system so she wrote some very
27:01
malicious things about him about his
27:03
manhood so forth and so on
27:05
which was the way she operated and I
27:08
make a long story short or he gathered
27:13
together some felons that he had served
27:15
time in jail with and kidnapped her and
27:17
my brother and my older daughter who was
27:19
an atheist from the time that I was an
27:22
atheist and worked with my mother
27:25
kidnapped 2/3 of them held them until
27:28
they got to hundreds of thousands of
27:30
dollars and ransom and then murdered
27:31
them and folks the way the transgressor
27:37
is hard but God's love reaches down to
27:42
one who even denied his existence you
27:45
want to want to look in the Bible the
27:46
Apostle Paul was one of those haters of
27:49
Jesus so he had a God but the God was
27:53
not not the one that he was serving and
27:56
that his God's son was not not
27:58
recognized to be his son and then it was
28:02
that God struck him down and he found
28:05
the true message of God well today we're
28:09
going to be taking a break in just a
28:10
moment when we come back bill I'd like
28:12
to talk about some of the things you're
28:14
in Washington now you have a special
28:16
ministry and I'd like you to share with
28:19
the people even about these crosses
28:20
there it can't
28:21
and what God is using you to do there in
28:24
the seat of our government in Washington
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from the frontiers of scientific
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help us work more efficiently
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many of these are documented in the book
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discovery of design in this book you'll
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learn how things like batteries human
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use technology from beech tree leaves
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how the study of the leg bone led to the
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how the study of the timber beetle
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helped to improve the use of chainsaws
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it's a fantastic journey into the
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intersection of science and God's
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blueprints for life discovery of design
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is available for a donation of sixteen
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dollars or more to vcy America by
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calling 1-800 seventeen nine eight to
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nine that's one eight hundred seventy
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two nine nine eight to nine
30:19
and welcome back to crosstalk our guest
30:22
today William J Murray a man who has
30:25
written the book my life without God and
30:28
their folks there are people listening
30:29
even to this broadcast right now that
30:32
may be living a life of prosperity or
30:35
things that you have made gods in your
30:37
life but you have never come to know the
30:39
the love and forgiveness and the
30:42
cleansing by the blood of Jesus Christ
30:45
and may I say today listen as bill
30:48
shares his heart with us because it was
30:50
out of darkness to light it was out of
30:52
bondage to true freedom and the book my
30:55
life without God is available if you'd
30:57
like to get a copy of it again you can
30:59
contact our our offices here at 888
31:03
seven two two forty eight twenty nine
31:07
eight eight eight seven two two forty
31:10
twenty nine or you can go to vcy dot-com
31:13
the name of the book is my life without
31:16
God by William Jay Murray bill as we see
31:20
how God has changed the direction of
31:23
your life from darkness to light and
31:25
he's laid a passion on your heart to to
31:27
reach out to make a difference in our
31:28
world you're there in Washington and
31:31
seeing all this going on and what are
31:33
you doing there well I am my offices on
31:36
Pennsylvania Avenue six blocks from the
31:39
Capitol building it used to be two
31:40
blocks away but my building got torn
31:42
down
31:44
needed to have a more modern building
31:46
there what can I say
31:47
but I am on Capitol Hill every day that
31:51
Congress is in session I work with a lot
31:55
of the issues that you talked about you
31:56
mentioned you know the the the the
32:03
pendal content cross begins it yes it's
32:06
an interesting history I don't know if
32:09
you know this but of the seven men that
32:11
climbed up that mountain and put that
32:13
cross up as a memorial to their fallen
32:18
comrades Marines that three of them
32:21
subsequently died in service in
32:24
Afghanistan and Iraq that's right
32:27
so you know this one of the chief
32:31
defenders of that is a good friend of
32:32
mine his name is congressman Randy
32:35
Forbes and congressman Forbes is
32:38
absolutely leading the battle on Capitol
32:41
Hill III just in fact he did the
32:43
Huckabee show just the other day on on
32:46
this issue the shucks Huckabee radio
32:47
show and he has he of course is one of
32:51
the founders of the prayer caucus before
32:53
Randy Forbes there was no prayer caucus
32:55
in Congress I mean official caucus
32:58
it has over a hundred members in a lot
33:02
of people out there ever they think all
33:03
congressmen are bad let me tell you
33:05
that's nothing right
33:07
the prayer caucus is over a hundred
33:10
congressmen that meet and pray every
33:12
single week the Congress is in session
33:14
and in work for the things that you and
33:17
I believe in and people ought to check
33:19
that they can they can go to his website
33:22
they can look at they can just look up
33:24
Google prayer caucus or they can go to
33:27
Forbes got house gov forward slash
33:31
prayer caucus and read about you know
33:36
what the prayer caucus is doing to
33:38
defend and that isn't all you know I
33:41
don't know if you know this but the same
33:44
atheist organization it's called the
33:47
Association the military association of
33:50
atheists and three and freethinkers math
33:53
they have also just caused the Air Force
33:57
to remove one of its standards of making
34:00
sure that the rooms are ready on Air
34:02
Force bases for temporary bivouac have
34:05
Bibles in the rooms that that that be
34:07
removed and he is fighting that he is
34:10
also the one in the prayer caucus that
34:12
fought when the Veterans Administration
34:15
Hospital said the people couldn't bring
34:17
Bibles to the hospital anymore so we do
34:21
have I mean there there is a body in
34:23
Congress of good and good men and women
34:27
godly men and women in the prayer caucus
34:29
fitter that are fighting every day for
34:32
the things we believe everybody up here
34:34
is not somebody that is
34:39
you know they haven't having a girl in
34:42
their lap and smoking a cigar and
34:44
drinking a dream far from it there are a
34:46
lot of great men up here a lot of
34:48
Deacons their congressman Aikens who's
34:51
running cottage and who's running for
34:52
the Senate missourian who is a
34:55
congressman there his degree is in
34:56
theology not talking politics and we
35:00
have a you know so it's we need these
35:04
kind of people supported rather than
35:06
than what we've got out there which is
35:08
virtually all conservatives hating all
35:10
congressmen we should be honoring the
35:14
ones that are really fighting for us
35:15
bill
35:17
obviously you must have a website that
35:19
people could track and follow who are we
35:22
have we have a couple it's a Religious
35:24
Freedom Coalition dot-org just Religious
35:27
Freedom Coalition work but the reality
35:29
is is that any search engine any search
35:31
engine if you just type in Religious
35:33
Freedom Coalition we're going to come up
35:35
number one and then I do a tremendous
35:38
amount of work in the middle east and on
35:40
Sharia law and we also have a website at
35:43
Sharia free us a bill that that's
35:46
another item because right here in our
35:48
own City of Milwaukee or our suburb
35:51
Brookfield Wisconsin there is a big push
35:54
to bring in a mosque and of course the
35:57
argument is well it's just another
35:59
religion it's freedom of religion and
36:01
they pray in a different way and they
36:03
have a different God perhaps you know
36:05
and we understand Islam we know that
36:09
their God has no son
36:12
but the issue when it comes to the
36:14
Constitution and them having the right
36:16
to worship as they please but the issue
36:19
of Sharia is what really throws a monkey
36:22
wrench in that because a lot of people
36:24
don't understand what Sharia is all
36:26
about yes and in unfortunately the
36:30
Liberals in our country who always side
36:32
with mass murderers whether they be
36:34
Joseph Stalin or Mao or Castro or or or
36:38
the mullahs of Iran you know think that
36:41
Islam and it's misogynistic ways are
36:44
just wonderful which is just
36:46
mind-boggling but if you could give me
36:49
two minutes here to explain
36:52
something because I actually have this
36:55
one of the areas that I actually happen
36:57
to be an expert in the floor the floor
37:00
is yours
37:01
in the West we have various forms of
37:05
government we have the government within
37:07
the home the family government then we
37:10
have the the church government we have
37:13
the the local government we have the
37:18
national government and then we have
37:20
God's government in it the the the the
37:23
overall that which which God in the
37:27
morals that the in in in in for that he
37:30
dictates upon us and his government in
37:33
heaven five different forms of
37:35
government and the family takes care of
37:40
the government within their own home and
37:42
the local community takes care of those
37:44
and the church takes care of its law
37:45
within within its own church and governs
37:48
itself you don't have any of that in
37:50
Islam there's only one law that Sharia
37:52
and Sharia governs every single aspect
37:56
of the life of every individual inside
38:00
the home inside the mosque inside the
38:02
local government inside the national
38:05
government every Islamic government in
38:08
the world their Constitution says that
38:10
no law can be passed that it's contrary
38:13
to Sharia law and and in every aspect of
38:18
life is controlled what shoe you put on
38:22
first in the morning is controlled you
38:25
can only eat food with one hand you have
38:28
to eat food with with only your right
38:30
hand you can't eat food with your left
38:31
hand you can only wipe yourself when you
38:35
go to the bathroom with your left hand
38:37
you could never you can never touch your
38:39
private areas with with your right hand
38:42
and I mean I could go on and on and on
38:45
and on every single aspect of life at
38:48
every level is controlled with Sharia
38:50
law and we have liberals say oshri law
38:53
doesn't matter because you know that's
38:55
only inside the mosque but that's not
38:57
true
38:58
one of the main aspects of Sharia is
39:00
that you can never criticize all of it
39:02
you can never criticize Muhammad that
39:04
you can never criticize this
39:06
when was the last time you saw a TV or
39:08
movie show or anything else that
39:10
criticized that's right we we have
39:12
Sharia law in the United States right
39:14
now because there are there are all
39:18
sorts of things that people are either
39:21
afraid to do or even the government will
39:24
come in and tell you don't do these
39:26
because they're they're offensive to
39:28
Muslims now it isn't as bad as it is
39:31
let's say in the United Kingdom where a
39:33
man was just put in jail for one year
39:36
because he was quote a racist because he
39:39
put a sign in his apartment window that
39:41
said no Sharia law in the United Kingdom
39:43
and because of that sign he was put into
39:46
jail for four years you've got got
39:49
public pools in London England where it
39:52
says Muslims only and no one else can
39:55
come in except a Muslim because Muslims
39:58
don't want to swim in water that is
40:00
contaminated by by an inflow of
40:02
infertile this is Sharia law we just saw
40:05
what happened in France the
40:07
anti-semitism the misogyny that it is
40:11
incorporated into this Sharia law is
40:14
everything and I just was writing for my
40:19
update today that'll be at my up set up
40:21
my site at the end of the day that the
40:23
Muslim jurists Association here in the
40:26
United States ruled that Muslims
40:28
shouldn't work in law enforcement
40:31
because we have secular laws in this
40:34
country that are contrary to Allah and
40:37
this is this is the Muslim judicial
40:40
bodies telling Muslims that they
40:42
shouldn't work for the police or the FBI
40:43
or or any organization because they
40:46
should not participate in anything that
40:50
imposes secular law because the secular
40:53
law could be contrary to all us without
40:55
law so this is a this is something that
41:02
is is a threat to the very existence of
41:07
our Constitution and our constitutional
41:09
and something which has already
41:10
basically made governments in in Europe
41:15
surrender to Sharia and
41:18
it does come outside of the mosque folks
41:20
you heard just what bill said it is
41:22
something that governs lives what about
41:24
the issue of even the prosecution of
41:27
people caught in in what Sharia calls a
41:30
sinful lifestyle if it's a woman that's
41:33
caught in adultery what happens well you
41:37
know it in in in many of the the the
41:40
solidly Muslim countries there they're
41:41
killed but let me well you know they
41:44
would that is that doesn't happen here
41:45
yet
41:46
officially although we have honor
41:47
killings in the United States and we
41:49
have a lot more honor killings than are
41:51
reported because a lot of them are
41:54
reported as accidents when it when a 19
41:58
year old Muslim girls found with a
42:00
broken neck at her home they said well
42:01
she fell down these three stairs and but
42:07
we don't have that but but here's an
42:10
example this is an example Kuwait which
42:13
was freed from Iraq by George HW Bush
42:19
and which are our troops went over there
42:22
and fought and died the free Iraq last
42:24
week they voted to make blasphemy a
42:28
crime punishable by death
42:30
so that if you insult all insult the
42:33
prophet or you say something contrary to
42:35
the Koran in in and saying anything
42:38
contrary to the Koran and by the way I
42:40
did I don't think people understood this
42:42
isn't cursing Allah let me let me give
42:44
you an idea a woman is facing the death
42:47
penalty in Pakistan because she drank
42:51
water from the same well as a Muslim
42:53
woman and drinking an integral drinking
42:57
water from the same will as a Muslim
43:00
woman is considered blasphemy so she is
43:03
she is waiting trial for a death
43:06
sentence in Pakistan for blasphemy
43:08
because that is a you know can
43:11
considered a blasphemy and as far as
43:16
enforcement of sharia our troops in
43:19
afghanistan have been told that the
43:22
Marines were told that when they're
43:24
they're out in encampments they cannot
43:27
urinate in in the the direction of mecca
43:30
because it's district
43:31
spectable to Islam that it's a part of
43:33
Sharia law unbelieving they sleep at
43:35
night their boots their feet boots
43:38
cannot be poor report would be pointed
43:40
toward Mecca that Sharia law and then we
43:43
have these idiots thing we don't have
43:44
Sharia law well what is that bill we're
43:46
gonna be right back in 60 seconds
43:48
Bill Murray our guest today this is
43:50
cross talk for the world view weekend
43:59
minute I'm Brandon house our website is
44:01
worldview weekend com
44:04
continuing our commentaries on 20
44:06
characteristics of false teachers
44:07
embraced by the false church number four
44:10
is false teachers willingly embrace
44:12
unbiblical philosophies
44:14
second Timothy 4:4 says and they will
44:15
turn their ears away from the truth and
44:18
be turned aside the fables that word
44:20
fables is translated also philosophies
44:23
he's not interesting because Colossians
44:25
2:8 says beware lest anyone cheat you
44:28
through philosophy and empty deceit
44:31
according to the tradition of men
44:33
according to the basic principles of the
44:35
world and not according to Christ so
44:38
false teachers turn their ear away from
44:40
truth and follow unbiblical philosophies
44:43
the very same unbiblical philosophies
44:45
were warned about in Colossians 2:8 not
44:47
to be cheated by so false teachers
44:49
knowingly embrace false teaching and
44:53
unbiblical philosophies our web-site
44:55
worldview weakened calm
45:06
okay we're back with you at the final
45:09
segment of crosstalk today are
45:10
privileged to have William J Murray with
45:12
us he was the son of Madalyn Murray
45:15
O'Hair God wonderfully reached down and
45:18
through the miracle of salvation brought
45:21
this young man who was one that he once
45:23
an atheist to be a follower of the Lord
45:25
Jesus Christ and we praise God for that
45:27
well bill we've got about eight minutes
45:29
left here I know you've got a website
45:31
again promote that and if people want a
45:33
copy of that book my life without God if
45:36
you'd contact our the number at our
45:39
source here at eight eight eight seven
45:41
two to forty eight twenty nine that's
45:44
eight eight eight seven to two forty
45:46
eight twenty nine or you can go to vcy
45:48
dot-com and contact us there at the book
45:52
is a special a twenty five percent off
45:55
this is a special offered by our
45:59
bookstore so please get in touch with us
46:01
bill I'm gonna give you the rest of the
46:03
time continue to share please oh yes
46:05
well anybody that wants further
46:07
information we've got a lot of resources
46:10
that go to religious freedom coalition
46:12
org or just look up religious freedom
46:14
coalition we have a lot more on Sharia
46:17
at our Sharia site at Sharia free
46:21
usa.org and then we have a good Facebook
46:25
presence thank we've got a lot of
46:27
discussion going on right now about this
46:29
thing with Muslims serving in law
46:31
enforcement at our Facebook page which
46:33
is facebook.com slash Sharia free USA I
46:40
mean we we are facing them you know we
46:43
have a lot of people that that I think
46:45
that that say that we have a government
46:48
that is that it's anti religious and and
46:51
and I kind of say well that is really
46:53
true we have an administration now we
46:56
have a government structure that is
46:59
becoming much like it is in the United
47:01
Kingdom like it is in France in which it
47:04
is anti judeo-christian not anti
47:08
religion they don't appear to have any
47:10
problems with with Islam in fact we have
47:15
a we have a government
47:17
now that has helped overthrow the the
47:20
secular government of Libya the
47:23
secretary secular government of Egypt
47:25
the secular government of Tunisia and
47:27
now is trying to overthrow the secular
47:29
government of of Syria and these quote
47:34
rebels in Syria they're their al-qaeda
47:38
and we have these strange bedfellows of
47:41
Senator John McCain and and President
47:45
Barack Obama who want to overthrow the
47:48
secular government of Syria where most
47:50
of the Christians in the Middle East now
47:52
live and we want to help the al-qaeda
47:57
rebels who will kill all those
47:58
Christians and drive all those
48:00
Christians off we want to put them in
48:02
power and I don't understand it
48:05
you know this guy Assad is not a very
48:07
nice fella but you know there they have
48:11
under him there's a pluralistic society
48:13
you have brand-new churches being build
48:16
Christians do well from themselves and
48:18
we want to do the same thing we did in
48:20
Iraq the same thing we're doing in Egypt
48:22
go in there allow us to react imply --nt
48:25
government to to come in that persecutes
48:30
and kills Christians I don't get it as
48:33
we see Israel and Iran and the possible
48:37
powder keg that could go off almost any
48:40
time bill well I
48:43
if I were Israel I wouldn't count on any
48:45
support you know one of the things that
48:48
that the Obama administration did by
48:50
overthrowing the secular government in
48:52
in Egypt is the secular government of
48:57
Egypt was they weren't a nun law an ally
49:00
of Israel but they were at peace with
49:03
Israel and what we have there now is the
49:08
Muslim Brotherhood who now controls the
49:10
the Parliament they have issued a
49:13
declaration that Israel is the main
49:16
enemy of Egypt and so thanks to our
49:21
intervention and getting the secular
49:23
government of Mubarak out of there we
49:25
have now created a major enemy on on the
49:29
border of
49:30
of Israel to Israel all those aircraft
49:33
that we have sold all the militants
49:35
sophisticated military hardware that we
49:38
gave Egypt is probably at some point now
49:41
going to be used against Israel and it
49:44
will be a much more even match than it
49:47
was when Egypt were the last time Israel
49:50
fought Egypt in Egypt was using outdated
49:53
Soviet equipment and we have created a
49:58
situation in there it rather than
50:01
stabilizing the region in which
50:03
President Obama claimed we have actually
50:06
made the reason much more volatile and
50:08
war much more likely and I don't think
50:11
the war is going to come first with Iran
50:12
I think the war is going to come with
50:14
Egypt bill final thoughts when you look
50:18
at America and do you have any
50:21
predictions any feelings of where
50:23
America is really headed here I think
50:28
this is really decisive year I think if
50:31
we have another four years of having an
50:33
administration that is opposed to
50:37
judeo-christianity that once to
50:40
simultaneously I have the contradictory
50:44
the contradiction of both Sharia law and
50:48
same-sex marriage I'm not quite sure how
50:50
that works but in the concept that all
50:53
religions are merely traditions and and
50:55
not fact phase that if we have four more
50:58
years of that I'm not sure what
51:01
direction America will go God is in the
51:04
business of saving nations is in the
51:06
business of saving people hmm
51:07
and if anybody is praying for America to
51:10
be saved I would I would beg them to
51:13
pray for the salvation of the people
51:14
rather than the nation bill in closing
51:17
what can people pray for you because
51:19
you're in a key spot there in Washington
51:21
well please pray that the doors stay
51:24
open to me you know III when when in the
51:28
previous administration I was able to
51:30
call an assistant to the president of
51:33
the White House and say please help me
51:35
save this man's life who has been
51:37
arrested in Afghanistan or
51:40
or Iraq and and who's going to be put to
51:42
death because he's a Christian and he's
51:44
being accused of this Matt I could get
51:46
help and I don't have that anymore and I
51:50
need the doors that are open to stay
51:53
open to me and and and and for other
51:55
doors to open up to help save the lives
51:57
of Christians particularly in the Middle
52:00
East bill it's a privilege to have had
52:03
you on the air today and again I hope
52:04
many people get your book and we will be
52:07
praying for you and that God would speak
52:10
to the hearts of people who have been so
52:12
married to secularism and materialism
52:15
and and God is afar off but that he is
52:19
concerned enough to take someone who
52:21
even blaspheme his name to be a child of
52:24
God we thank God for what he's done for
52:26
you thanks Bill thank you and God bless
52:29
you Vic and thanks for joining us ladies
52:31
and gentlemen on crosstalk have a great
52:34
day and we'll see you bill
52:59
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